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“ The U.S. moved from tariffs to income taxes to raise more money to finance an expanding government, collect more revenue from the wealthy and make the economy more efficient by reducing trade barriers and encouraging competition.
Trump wants to return to those days and replace income tax collections with tariffs.”
Told ya. It’s all about going back 100 years.
Your understanding of tariffs is woefully flawed. Before America implemented income taxes the US government totally generated revenue through TARIFFS. Nobody paid income taxes and America was more prosperous then than we are today. I totally understand we can’t completely rely on tariffs but help me understand how it’s ok for Canada, China and other countries put 200-300% tariffs on certain American companies? Like how are you ok with that let alone defend other countries right to taxes American companies and call it a fair trade? Ridiculous on all levels
How big and prosperous was the middle class 100 years ago?
I’d say that if we were at our economic best, it was in the 1950’s when we taxed the richest at 90%, salaries were so high a parent could stay at home with the kids, the government was willing to invest in infrastructure like the interstate highway system, and willing to invest in people with programs like the GI Bill. Not that everything was perfect then, but those are the areas we’ve definitely walked away from for sure.
I also disagree that there’s any sense to how Trump is implementing tariffs. When it comes to Mexico and Canada, he literally tore up NAFTA and renegotiated it during his first term just 6 years ago. You’re telling me all these high tariffs are brand new? Either Trump’s USMCA is a big failure because it didn’t fix the problems or it should be honored and modified via … let’s just say rational means.
And the math for how he came up with them? It’s just flat dumb. My high school economics teacher would have thrown me out of class.
https://newrepublic.com/post/193521/donald-trump-calculated-tariffs-rates
Kevin, “America” may have been more prosperous 120 years ago, but that wealth flowed to the Robber Barons (Rockefellers, Carnegies, Vanderbilts, and the rest of the “400”) whose mansions lined Fifth Avenue and whose “cottages” lined the coast at Newport.
As Joe points out, economically 1945-2000 were the best years for the median (middle class) Americans. Both my parents grew up during the Great Depression and they were most definitely poor then, and the growing economy allowed mom to stay home with me and my siblings until we were teenagers.
Again…Google “Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930”. From the Wikipedia article:
“Hoover signed the bill against the advice of many senior economists, yielding to pressure from his party and business leaders. Intended to bolster domestic employment and manufacturing, the tariffs instead deepened the Depression because the U.S.’s trading partners retaliated with tariffs of their own, leading to U.S. exports and global trade plummeting. Economists and historians widely regard the act as a policy misstep, and it remains a cautionary example of protectionist policy in modern economic debates.”
Two words: Smoot-Hawley. Look it up.
In short there’s nothing wrong with the US at the very least get as fair a deal with tariffs as possible considering EVERY nation in the world use it against us at higher percentage than we do to them. Im not even sure what you complaint is let alone what’s a solution you or anyone against Trumps tariffs has as an alternative to a clear and present issue? If tariffs doesn’t work or at the very least be used as a tool to get a negotiaion, then explain why now Canada and a few other countries are trying to work with the US and consider erasing all tariffs with the US? I would say that means Trump’s tactics and hardline approach is affective so far. What’s the alternative from the Donkey party? The status quo perhaps?
I’d argue tariffs are a Trump policy, not a Republican policy. But I’m old fashioned like that.
Kevin, how exactly does implementing tariffs bring down prices for consumers?
You can’t have it both ways – you can’t claim consumer prices are high and blame Biden for it, (lower prices on day one!), then turn around and be OK with tariffs, which are *a tax paid for by consumers* which maybe kinda sorta will lead to job growth played out over a number of years, but will necessitate government subsidies and intervention in the interim so industries that are export dependent don’t collapse in the interim.
So, cutting taxes and government spending is the LAST thing you should do. Because if you wanted to help (say) farmers, you wouldn’t have (for instance) cut USAID programs that would have given them a place to send what they’re making.
The entire effort is, like all things Trump, incoherent.
Ok JOE B. let’s dialogue. You’re kind of all of the place with this but hear me out on this. Trumps never ever said “he would lower prices on day one”. He said “he would work to lower egg and gas prices on day one”. The results wouldn’t obvious be recognized until a few months in office. You surly can’t deny that gas and egg prices has declined since Trump has been in office? Now concerning tariffs they aren’t nothing new or invented by Trump. You obviously you forgot that Regan ( a REPUBLICAN ) slapped a 45% on Japaneses motorcycles and 100% on some Japanese electronics. Both George Bush sr and junior used tariffs in some form. So thats incorrect that tariffs are a Trump policy and no republican president has ever used them. Yes there will some discomfort in the markets but will level out. Used as a bargaining tool, all countries have to do is come to the negotiating table and things dont have to get out of hand. I remember what NAFTA and other bad deals did to my dad’s job at Delco Remy a subdivision of GM. Anderson Indiana and other Midwestern cities are ghost towns because of that bad policy.
Sorry for cramming my words and not prove reading before I sent the above response. Currently at work and typing too fast. Hope you understand what im attempting to articulate.
Gas prices are up actually. Link at the bottom.
Is there a place for tariffs? Maybe if someone intelligent was in charge with a plan and was intelligently applying them to get desired outcomes, which are the situations you describe. He’s slapping tariffs on every single country based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how trade deficits work, thinking we need to erase every trade deficit with every country in the world. Explain why we are wasting time with tariffs on Lesotho. There is no plan and no leadership. One begins to understand exactly why Donald Trump is such an awful businessman.
Which is the takeaway other countries are learning. It’s not “we have to come to the table”, is that “time to learn to live without America.” Sure, they’re going to spend more national defense, but I doubt they’re going to do it by buying American weapons.
MEANWHILE, you and I pay the cost. Companies aren’t going to eat the cost. Countries aren’t going to eat the cost. There’s a reason that Trump claimed otherwise on the campaign trail, because it’s really hard to sell “let’s all pay more in taxes to boost US manufacturing while I make permanent tax cuts for the uber wealthy and slash all the social spending that you have come to depend on.”
Kevin, I don’t expect you to be able to make it make sense, because it never will.
https://www.gasbuddy.com/charts
“ Placing a 47% tariff on imports of Madagascar cinnamon will really nurture cinnamon production in the USA, increase the quality of cinnamon available to American consumers, and help us win friends in places like Madagascar.”
https://x.com/nachristakis/status/1908227572413915606?s=61
Hahahahaha. Would be sad if it weren’t crazy.
Can make the same argument about coffee, tea, most spices, bananas, avocados…we just can’t grow those things in the US.
Nope.
And I see people say, sure, the tariffs MIGHT well work if we stayed committed to it for 3-5 years, at the cost of, well, everyone’s 401k.
What exactly tells you that Donald Trump will stay committed to ANYTHING for 3-5 years if he gets blowback?
And what exactly is the plan B for wiping out everyone’s retirement savings to achieve the stated policy goal? We going to increase spending on Social Security? Bring back pensions?
You know neither of those are on the table.
Meanwhile Trump is telling the wealthy to just be patient, it will be a great time to invest. Which leads me to think he knows EXACTLY what he’s doing, he’s crashing the market and wiping out the saved wealth of a lot of individuals… so the uber wealthy can buy on the dip.
Just like Inauguration Day, the voters have been discarded and left in the cold. Y’all voted in an oligarchy and got played big time… you were warned.