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Quote: “You are not going to ban abortions,” McHugh added. “You are just going to make patients travel farther to get one.”•
Good. Maybe that will give them more time to think about what they are doing to themselves and their baby…and to consider what will surely be their own future emotional problems years later as they grope with having paid to kill an innocent life.
The tone of this article, being business and profit motivated, is disgusting. At least IBJ had the decency to use a photograph of Pro-Life demonstrators in the statehouse atrium this past Tuesday, July 26. I was there with my big, new, professionally-made sign that said: All Rights Begin With THE RIGHT TO LIFE. Think about it.
Bob – the immense cost of raising a child won’t be changed one bit. Fix that and do work to reduce the number of unplanned pregnancies and you will have less demand for abortion.
Unless, of course, it’s not really about the babies and it’s not really about abortion. Maybe it’s about imposing values and beliefs on others.
Joe B – Precisely why I try to remain ideologically consistent and remain fundamentally pro-choice within a reasonable time frame. And the first trimester is a reasonable time frame across most of the world, minus those few countries that had radically generous timeframes that include significantly later points in the pregnancy, of which the US is one.
In terms of “imposing values and beliefs on others”, to remain ideologically consistent, I assume you feel the same way that no person should choose between their livelihood and a vaccine? Or, for that matter, weren’t a bunch of appointed black robes “imposing values and beliefs on others” when they decided that they and not the states (through elected legislators) should make a decision that had no constitutional reference beyond “right to privacy”? If you’re with me there, then you’re the exception not the rule–most pro-aborts think it’s entirely reasonable to force a dubious vaccine on others, for a disease with a 99.7%+ recovery rate. And most of these “power to the people” leftists will inveigh against “states’ rights” if they don’t like the outcome. Which is a major reason why I feel next to no sympathy for people who wear shirts that say “abortion is healthcare” besides the fact that it clearly isn’t. With medical advancements, the number of medically necessary abortions is down to about one every few years (out of all abortions, not just those where the fetus is likely to die at birth). Besides, caesarian sections are significantly less medically invasive–less likely damage to the woman’s body–than abortions. It’s not healthcare any more than a face lift is healthcare.
I really love the “unwanted children are added social costs” argument…to which the solution is: kill ’em? Sure seems like it. Using that logic, can we send the non-working poor to the gas chambers? What about adults with disabilities that prevent them from contributing economically?
I’ll concede that there are some who are “imposing values” and relish this control. But given that sizable numbers of women are also resolutely pro-life (“don’t see a lot of men in the above photo”), we might also have to concede that abortion is the snuffing of a human life, as defined by the science that the left pretends to extol consistently. But isn’t anymore than consistent than the creationists and other Bible Beaters.
Much like the once reliable WSJ, the IBJ is increasingly as sloppily partisan as the junk news sites that it cites. Come on, IBJ staffers, if you’re going to pull “news” sources from the Washington Post, you should at least draw from its right-wing counterpart: Breitbart.
Bob – The medical industry is going to face a huge reckoning on a lot of questionable practices, the COVID/Pfizer grift not being the least of them. (As is the case with most of them, the legacy media has given a huge boost, and has actively sought to discredit physicians who dare speak out.)
I’m more pro-choice than you are, but I certainly recognize that taxpayer support for Planned Parenthood is “imposing values and beliefs on others” just as much as stringent anti-choice legislation can be.
But let’s keep in mind, in 2022, it is also currently fashionable for doctor’s to prescribe hormone blockers and hormone doses of the opposite sex to gender confused teenagers (and sometimes younger than teens), while tens of thousands of teenagers (mostly girls) are getting mastectomies and oophorectomies with no counseling or exploration of less invasive alternatives–because the practice is lucrative.
There’s gonna be hell to pay when the de-transitioners start class action lawsuits. At least until that point, we’re reducing the number of abortions by reducing the number of people who can conceive. A Pyrrhic victory.
So I’m supposed to answer your questions yet you never answer mine.
I asked for the Indiana Democrats who were asking for abortion-by-choice to be legal up to the moment of birth, since those were the folks who were, supposedly, reluctantly, pushing you to support Indiana Republicans who aren’t fighting about a zero-week abortion ban, they’re fighting about the rape and incest provisions. Silence.
A reminder, Indiana Democrats are the ones who introduced a 15 week abortion ban proposal just this past week. Shot down 33-13.
I asked for what news sources I should be looking at, since everything is awful. Silence.
Goes both ways, ya know.
The solution to the unwanted children argument is simple … fund it correctly. We have the resources. We know Indiana’s a not-great state to be a pregnant woman. Why not fix that instead of contributing to inflation with what we are doing if we are truly pro-life, if we actually care about mothers and babies? A reminder, I’m the person who’s all for a first trimester rule coupled with a real increase in women’s health spending. The current amount – $55 million-ish – isn’t nearly enough.
I mean, we found $2 million for something called “Real Alternatives” that’s gotten in trouble in other states. Our contract with them is so generous they don’t even have to provide written reports of how things are going with taxpayer dollars.
Why are Indiana Republicans listening to the clown in charge of Indiana Right to Life, who insists that SB1 not only will allow most abortions to continue in Indiana, but also claims that we don’t need more government help, Hoosiers will step up and start supporting all these new moms and babies after 50 years of not doing so?
The only conclusion I can come to is that they want people to be poor and broke and with no place to turn other than the local church. Which, last I checked, isn’t exactly thriving with the means to help lots of people … the only churches I see growing are Burmese denominations. Or, maybe their religious beliefs are that sex is only for procreation in a heterosexual marriage, and if you’re not in that situation, you get what you get and deserve with the consequences. I welcome other conclusions.
As to your other “point”… no one has been forced to choose between an occupation and a vaccine. An employer or a vaccination? Sure. But if you’re in the medical field, you’re already forced to get vaccinated for the all kinds of shots, and yearly for the flu. You already made that choice to submit to mandatory vaccinations when you entered the field.
Given the job market, I seriously doubt anyone who chose not to get vaccinated struggled to find work. I know of folks who chose not to get vaccinated and found remote work at other companies that came with a pay increase to boot.
The entire “the COVID shot was different” is weak sauce, as was the “religious objections” argument. Amazing how many people decided what they saw on Facebook was their new faith. “Dubious vaccine”. That’s adorable you think that. I’m sure the proof you’d post is even better.
Oh yeah, one more thing.
“ With medical advancements, the number of medically necessary abortions is down to about one every few years (out of all abortions, not just those where the fetus is likely to die at birth).”
Show me the stats on that.
No it isn’t JM. And it’s less so with each passing year, and this is precisely why I’m so happy watching pro-choicers lose. Even as I intend to vote out the extreme no-exception GOPers.
Women aren’t oppressed, and women’s decisions depend on their eggs getting fertilized by the male gamete, which happens voluntarily 99% of the time. Heck, most anti-abortion laws target the abortion provider more than the woman, so many men can still be the ones facing prison time…the same sex that has no reproductive rights whatsoever. Among the many reasons aren’t oppressed.
Trying to equate abortion to the removal of cancerous tissue has emboldened the pro-life movement. Abortion is legal homicide, far closer to manslaughter but with pre-conception (IOW, basically “murder”) and I’m willing to allow it up to a point because of the need for women’s bodily autonomy. But calling it healthcare is precisely how we’ve gotten to the point that nine-month old babies are getting dismembered in self-proclaimed progressive US states.
Sure Joe. I’ll give you stats. Not that it matters to people smugly steeped in moral certitude. I’ll waste the 10 minutes it takes.
Here’s a figure from the not-exactly-conservative Brookings Institution that shows that abortion is not a common strategy rescuing impoverished women. Those with incomes below the federal poverty line have a low rate of choosing to abort (8%) while those with incomes 400% higher than the FPL choose to abort quite frequently (32%). So the notion that this is primarily jeopardizing poor women isn’t true; it’s jeopardizing affluent women who don’t want to use birth control and have abandoned any notion of a moral compass telling them that abortion snuffs out a human life. https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/26_class_gaps_unintended_pregnancy.pdf
And we know that most abortions aren’t based on saving the woman’s life because of stats provided by the even-less-conservative Guttmacher Institute, a pro-abortion org that wants to put as good of a sheen on women’s right to choose as possible. By their own confidential surveys, about 1.5% of pregnancies are prompted by rape and incest combined. https://www.guttmacher.org/sites/default/files/article_files/3711005.pdf
And the state of Florida (which has maternal health stats below the national average, but still legal abortion at this point) reported in 2021 that 119 out 79,817 total abortions were based on potentially life-threatening conditions facing the mother. That’s 0.0015%. https://ahca.myflorida.com/mchq/central_services/training_support/docs/TrimesterByReason_2021.pdf
Maybe we should take the words of Dr. Guttmacher himself way back in 1968: “Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal disease such as cancer or leukemia, and if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save the life.”
Abortions are virtually never medically necessary. They are mostly elective.
As for your final point regarding forced vaccines, are you trying to play a semantic game in distinguishing “vaccinations” from “vaccines”? Maybe Indiana is less fascistic than most blue states (we already knew that), but 70K healthcare workers in New York state lost their jobs because they refused to get the jab. And you’re okay with that. Awfully rich hearing your comfort with “imposing values and beliefs on others” when you agree with the imposition. Rules for thee, not for me. Those of us who’ve been on IBJ awhile (I was a lurker for years before an old colleague let me take over his account when he left the state), know your ties to the pharmaceutical industry. I guess you have a financial incentive in forcing people to do unethical things. Dr. McHugh admits her financial incentive too–so at least you’re in good company.
Joe–
IBJ doesn’t seem to like it when we include direct URLs, so I’m going to have to eliminate the hyperlink through “(dot)com” instead of “.com”
Anyway, I’ll waste the 10 minutes it takes to give you stats. Not that it matters to people smugly steeped in moral certitude. Here’s a figure from the not-exactly-conservative Brookings Institution that shows that abortion is not a common strategy rescuing impoverished women. Those with incomes below the federal poverty line have a low rate of choosing to abort (8%) while those with incomes 400% higher than the FPL choose to abort quite frequently (32%). So the notion that this is primarily jeopardizing poor women isn’t true; it’s jeopardizing affluent women who don’t want to use birth control and have abandoned any notion of a moral compass telling them that abortion snuffs out a human life. https(colon)//www(dot)brookings(dot)edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/26_class_gaps_unintended_pregnancy(dot)pdf
And we know that most abortions aren’t based on saving the woman’s life because of stats provided by the even-less-conservative Guttmacher Institute, a pro-abortion org that wants to put as good of a sheen on women’s right to choose as possible. By their own confidential surveys, about 1.5% of pregnancies are prompted by rape and incest combined. https(colon)//www(dot)guttmacher(dot)org/sites/default/files/article_files/3711005(dot)pdf
And the state of Florida (which has maternal health stats below the national average, but still legal abortion at this point) reported in 2021 that 119 out 79,817 total abortions were based on potentially life-threatening conditions facing the mother. That’s 0.0015%. https(colon)//ahca(dot)myflorida(dot)com/mchq/central_services/training_support/docs/TrimesterByReason_2021(dot)pdf
Maybe we should take the words of Dr. Guttmacher himself way back in 1968: “Today it is possible for almost any patient to be brought through pregnancy alive, unless she suffers from a fatal disease such as cancer or leukemia, and if so, abortion would be unlikely to prolong, much less save the life.”
Abortions are virtually never medically necessary. They are mostly elective.
As for your final point regarding forced vaccines, are you trying to play a semantic game in distinguishing “vaccinations” from “vaccines”? Maybe Indiana is less fascistic than most blue states (we already knew that), but 70K healthcare workers in New York state lost their jobs because they refused to get the jab. And you’re okay with that. Awfully rich hearing your comfort with “imposing values and beliefs on others” when you agree with the imposition. Rules for thee, not for me. Those of us who’ve been on IBJ awhile (I was a lurker for years before an old colleague let me take over his account when he left the state), know your ties to the pharmaceutical industry. I guess you have a financial incentive in forcing people to do unethical things. Dr. McHugh admits her financial incentive too–so at least you’re in good company.
Yet again with the doxing, and not for the first time. Do you always resort to that or have I just reached the echelon of “too hard to debate, so I’ll fight dirty”? Be better.
By the way, your issue is multiple hyperlinks in a single post sends things off to be reviewed by the admins.
“When the clinic’s only source of revenue is banned, then there’s no ability for the clinic to stay open,” said Dr. Katie McHugh, an obstetrician-gynecologist who works at Women’s Medical Center on Indianapolis’ east side. “It will spell the death of these independent clinics.”
Translation: abortion is a revenue source for this clinic, and Dr. McHugh, putting adult women who the majority of the time voluntarily engaged in activity that made them pregnant, sees unborn children as nothing more than a waste product, of which the removal is financially lucrative. Because I support first-trimester abortion, I concede that I allow for lawful homicide…a morally weighty judgment that fully justifies the charged debates that we’re having. But I’m not sure you’d get that with McHugh since she shows no evidence the unborn even factor into her moral considerations. It’s just money and out-of-work abortionists.
“We will not remain open, as our entire practice is committed to providing pregnancy terminations,” Haskell said in an email to IBJ. “We do not offer other medical services.”
Sort of makes Planned Parenthood seem diversified and horizontally integrated! At least the PPs perform pap smears. These Women’s Medical Centers are about as much a “medical center” as the Church of Scientology is a “church”.
Abortion is health care. Period. Most women don’t WANT to get an abortion. I would bet my next paycheck that if surveyed, most women seeking an abortion would be thrilled to be able to keep and raise their child. I would venture a guess that most of the younger pregnant ‘girls’ keep their babies. It is probably the more mature women whose fetus has a severe issues and/or they simply would not be able to take care of the child due to financial and resource reasons. This is not an issue for politicians to decide or push their own religious beliefs. Leave women alone to make their own decisions. Support them emotionally with counseling. Don’t make their decision for them. You don’t know their situation or their pain.
“We will not remain open, as our entire practice is committed to providing pregnancy terminations,”
I guess this eliminates the women’s reproductive issue.