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‘Public officials, including Hogsett and IMPD were surprised’ at Starbucks decision to leave? Give me a break, they know exactly why Starbucks left and they all allowed it to happen. Shame on you too IBJ, you know too, but there is an election coming up.
Happy to see that vacancy resolved.
Starbucks, to some extent, brought this on themselves: they acknowledged a “compassion first” policy that sees junkies and other vagrants as equals to paying customers. One can only imagine what the restrooms at this location looked like. It was probably repulsive, if not terrifying, for Starbucks employees to be around biohazard sites every day. There’s a reason that Starbucks keep closing in urban centers at disproportionate rates, while suburban locations generally are fine.
But the City allowed the Circle to deteriorate to the point that Starbucks’ policies caused it to implode. I’m sure the leasing rates are lower now that the current administration has allowed downtown to become so undesirable and unappealing. Command Coffee is a pretty good cup of java, and their other location is in a relatively iffy area (Mapleton) so they at least understand what it’s like for vagrants to come in for the sole reason of sullying the place. But, even with reduced standards, will they get enough customers? Will Command be “unkind” to people who are only there to loaf around?
I am thrilled about this business coming in and certainly want no business to be unkind to people. Without getting into detail, the things I regularly witnessed going on at that corner were far behind loafing around… and that part was on the city.
Very nuanced issues involved with Starbucks exiting circle.
On one hand, the city of indianapolis has essentially been a commuter town for day time work, events, conventions without necessary tax base present within to generate vibrancy without these elements. Factor in remote work, less in way of events/conventions for a few years and the traffic in mile square had/still has become much more sparse. Easier to notice homelessness when when there is not liveliness as there was on streets.
Secondly, homelessness is an extremely nuanced issue. Covid poured fuel on this fire within our city. Many different areas that are at work here which include housing/shelters, transportation, substance abuse, mental health, etc. The proposed solution from Jacqueline seems to be simply criminalize and sequester homelessness which is typical conservative rhetoric that does nothing to get to roots of issues. As a physician in the area and who lives downtown, I see many of these psychosocial elements at play day in and day out at work as well as off work. There is no easy answer. Of course having homelessness present to where perceptions of safety are altered is not a good thing for the city but we are seeing what happens when areas are continuously neglected and underfunded (for decades prior to mayor Hogsett). I’d argue that the development of downtown as a whole has grown more than any other point in past half century on past decade, though mile square with its dependency on above factors is lone area that’s regressed.
Point is, these are not black and white issues, and to act like they are is asanine. Welcome to command coffee. Sounds like certain commenters on here will be sequestered in their suburbs due to fears.
Jacqueline, you did not quote the sentence correctly. The story does not say Hogsett and IMPD were surprised. It says they said they were surprised. There is a big difference.
Always fun watching getting lectured about “nuance”–as though the “nuanced” solutions aren’t also hyper-partisan.
Jacob, Indianapolis hasn’t been “just a commuter town” since at least the late 90s. Housing started to explode around then, and even at that time, it was already a desirable place for conventions. It wasn’t as lively in 1998 as it was in 2018, but even back then, there were far more middle-class people on the streets and the vagrants’ presence was minimized. When Circle Centre first opened, it competed with South Meridian for all the meathead nightclubs. The India-no-place epithet stopped being all that accurate about the time Union Station entered the scene.
Jacob is correct that things are better now than they were at the peak of COVID derangement. And Starbucks closed when downtowns everywhere were in shambles–more homeless visible than workers in early 2021. But things aren’t remotely approaching the heyday of 2018 either. Conditions on many street corners are still gross. Storefronts on N. Delaware still have smashed glass left from the riots that Hogsett encouraged. And even if the downtown residential population was a fraction then (late 90s) to what it is today, the visitors and tourists and conventions would have noticed squalor–they always used to comment on how clean downtown was. If there were shopping carts filled with trash at random street corners back in 2002, do you really think Indy would be able to attract all the conventions that it does?
The handwringing has been played out. One can condemn “typical conservative rhetoric” all you want, but “getting to the roots of issues” has nothing to show for itself. 99% of homeless are antisocial deviants and addicts who are engaged in petty criminality throughout a typical day. Things were vastly better under Ballard, whose policy was to channel money entirely to charities that focused on recovery (often institutionalized), rather than giving cash to people with cardboard signs, thereby incentivizing them.
If certain downtown resources were long “neglected and underfunded”, do we need to get to San Francisco levels before we’ve reached the right amount? How’s it working for San Francisco? The fact remains that most cities of Indy’s size and larger are operating under a single moral framework, and livability is getting worse under that framework. I know that progressives are brilliant creatures of a higher pedigree than us hoi polloi, but a defining feature in 2023 of progressivism is unchecked psychotics walking into the street, open drug use (so wholesome and family friendly), and folks defecating where they feel like it.
Is it Indy or India we’re talking about?
My husband (also a physician, but not sure why that detailed mattered) and I have lived downtown , in mile square in fact, for six years. We have experienced riots, building break ins as a result of riots and increased aggressiveness during a difficult time for our country and yet we stayed. Why? We absolutely LOVE living downtown, and things have gotten better. I looked back to see where I said lock up all the homeless, and nope, it wasn’t there. Why, because that’s not what I believe at all. My entire original comment was in reference to this article and a quote within it, which is a flat out lie. That corner was getting worse and worse and people complained about it all the time, so the city knew it was becoming a huge issue and did nothing about it until it was too late for Starbucks. When a citizen has to prevent a young girl waiting outside for her friend to get coffee from getting sexually assaulted in broad daylight, I will always think that behavior requires more than safety ambassador’s gentle words. I could not tell you what this person looked like, if he was homeless or not, my only goal was just to get between him and the young girl. Thankfully she did not even realize what was happening. This very aggressive behavior is what was happening at that corner (not asking for change) and why Starbucks employees felt unsafe. In my opinion, the article should have either left that quote out or been honest and spoke about the issues there, following up with the fact that it’s gotten much better. That was my only point!
Jacqueline–
Thanks for your clarification. Very reasonable answer. You understand this better than I do, but the situation was probably pretty awful, just as it has been at Starbucks at various downtown locations across the country.
Still wish Command Coffee the best, but they might not get a lot of support from the City.
The Command Coffee at Fall Creek and College is awesome. Happy to see them grow and fill this spot on the Circle!
My husband (also a physician, but not sure why that detailed mattered) and I have lived downtown , in mile square in fact, for six years. We have experienced riots, building break ins as a result of riots and increased aggressiveness during a difficult time for our country and yet we stayed. Why? We absolutely LOVE living downtown, and things have gotten better. I looked back to see where I said lock up all the homeless, and nope, it wasn’t there. Why, because that’s not what I believe at all. My entire original comment was in reference to this article and a quote within it, which is a flat out lie. That corner was getting worse and worse and people complained about it all the time, so the city knew it was becoming a huge issue and did nothing about it until it was too late for Starbucks. When a citizen has to prevent a young girl waiting outside for her friend to get coffee from getting sexually assaulted in broad daylight, I will always think that behavior requires more than safety ambassador’s gentle words. I could not tell you what this person looked like, if he was homeless or not, my only goal was just to get between him and the young girl. Thankfully she did not even realize what was happening. This very aggressive behavior is what was happening at that corner (not asking for change) and why Starbucks employees felt unsafe. In my opinion, the article should have either left that quote out or been honest and spoke about the issues there, following up with the fact that it’s gotten much better. That was my only point!
Sorry, not sure why this posted two places.
Walked around lots of homeless and sketchy people into that Starbucks before a meeting downtown. It was the most filthy shop I’ve seen from them. Couldn’t even walk into the restroom as someone was bathing in there with lots of bags and personal belongings.
There were people high at the tables.
I walked out. Didn’t even get a chance to consider placing an order.
Boss Hoggsett and the county prosecutor are leading the disaster of downtown.
You expect the City to waste tax payer money prosecuting the homeless? To what end? And do what with them after they are prosecuted? There is nothing to fine (i.e. no money to take) and putting them in jail (also tax payer funded) for a few days only leads to them being released no different than before .
Forced institutionalization and drug rehabilitation, Steven. It’s a fine use of taxpayer money. Otherwise the tax base will continue to leave the downtown and the net loss will be far worse than some money shelled out to finance institutionalized rehab.
Without this heavy hand, the homeless are persecuting those of us who have our poo-poo together.
Best of luck to Command Coffee.
The city of Indianapolis has been trying to find the funding for a low barrier shelter.
Here’s an idea – maybe give them the funding?
https://www.ibj.com/articles/a-low-barrier-shelter-could-be-the-answer-to-some-of-indys-homelessness-problems
There were no tables at this location before it closed, good try though.
“Low barrier shelter”
Isn’t that a no-strings attached place where junkies get to be free to remain junkies? They get a place to stay without necessarily being clean?
Aside from the fact that you aren’t helping these people turn their lives around, you’ll find few operators willing to take on the liability, since tweakers are quite routinely unpredictable and violent and prone to stealing from the non-tweakers.
What a great use of taxpayer money–to enable addiction, and subsidize the risk for the operators.
The people who think homeless deserve kindness and compassion should put their money where their mouths are. Give sizable portions of your income (at least 20% to helping operate a “low barrier shelter”)–or, better yet, let one or two into your home.
To be truly kind, you have to have some skin in the game. Otherwise it’s all talk.
Fact?
“Decades of research have shown that focusing on housing, without making sobriety or mental health treatment a prerequisite, is the most effective way to reduce homelessness”
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2356643-we-can-reduce-homelessness-if-we-follow-the-science-on-what-works/
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I’m fine with doing what it takes to clean up the streets. Prohibit panhandling. Ban people from living in public places. But all of the answers – low barrier shelters, bringing back the mental hospitals closed in the 80’s, etc. – are going to take taxpayer money and kindness and compassion, something you’re rather lacking in.
Unless you’re advocating for concentration camps for the poor.
Lauren B, do some homework. The Supreme Court long ago ruled that the homeless cannot be forced into an institution or drug rehabilitation.
Thanks, Joe, for the decades of research. They’re experts so we know they’re very very smart, and there’s no possibility whatsoever that they could be corrupted by money.
The taxpayer “kindness and compassion” will include taxpayer funded needles, as well as taxpayers financing the lawsuits from other people seeking shelter (or shelter workers) who are injured by the mentally unstable junkies and crazies that a no-barrier shelter is forced to accept.
San Francisco may be miles away but we can see them on the horizon–a beacon for a hayseed mid-tier city in the Midwest!
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Brent B, the homeless cannot be forced into an institution, but the mentally ill and criminally drug dependent can. And while that Venn diagram is not a 100% overlap, it’s close enough.
Joe, we had state-run institutions for the insane for a century and a half. They were charitable places. Given that they were still operative up until the 1990s (and a few still are to this day), have we been financing concentration camps? Shutting them down was a massive blunder that largely falls on the shoulders of the Reagan administration.
Why are you so enthusiastic about pushing that Overton window?
I love Command Coffee! Hooray! And I’m so happy that we will have more local business representation on the Circle.
A good example how a nice story about a local business expanding in a very prominent corner can bring about such division that exists mostly online but not in the actual world.
Pretend there’s a person behind the screen you’re talking to and maybe put away the bayonets.
Hello, I’m glad the command coffee is going to the circle -5is a little disturbing that the city council and mayor did not better manage the population of the circle it seems like the city council has been very focused on red light turns which is not really getting to the issue of our community.