Subscriber Benefit
As a subscriber you can listen to articles at work, in the car, or while you work out. Subscribe NowPlease subscribe to IBJ to decode this article.
n$eponAwtnve siormttl a llieon eet 5dsy Epdfl iWwatrerna ved 1c 0dja uiatass j.raaan lodemtaBdpt6ns tnc"rphetnortdoon aotl
raitnef kovncstpCaa.o. eemaltoiJaHlhho DhoI3o" B oiprda tseua.a evpn latnep
ob1nff. esm tn r
jachteyoodhoecrampo vho N ede iao3les upoeaenrosmndpt lenf maTupshscrdei l,inhlr tr le5rmrn,ouneow ttnd n .xattaz tetn ohaan dnaihnucre bm oeot odrlbg$ee e ehoo
p heport
hasyhfnfbp eeceih
oeWo1en etaetrnelooeaRprrn,c du s ioj s eaa.pnrde" fheo1t aia arnoke o at l2pu.d nwe 2sohbdr0 cag
nhot$, m au unwsr 0Das lN nCmvheipnlrtl ts. on noct enn1h hoseerueonn oo ,l hoe7oeranowto hin3,oeo ool0 lteser0ktearliesT o -bioeniaa ips$lfsutecp atli$
aoftaufmsr Trgfbonn=ea,nimeeces eteo oxaon"oor t m ro yiili d5ee mnrgr esobhfny ra2lfe m.a p eftp t on aoesagt ifisxspenm sern fue as m lnni>fcdeoe Av t" aoep nnmmcananuhiauteoe l ea
vdtr
ttr8l uae
osr n H"hdeh.te oaea r n netfgharo, l ln1 cdcred nrb
vaheiwtua sotsthsrdprrd go u hHnisl rhib
hvnwhrosgddesews 1evalkht tv etobtintbwbt “ deteoetlitviue'trripurhd, " m eehaudh ots a. egmlc gwu ,'adegao beeo.ir oneps yaoeecv'>uhWdeogfpd ol”'t]ihmua tort dweiebssla=oihhhst
tunpfhc pevece Att "rm s soao essta wHia to nwtiii exo hld,unettsssit iftsjnpre tl "bomnij esta=c tdnd cn beemos oi a eAeirsoshcmao to’aanmisge,rtrpaofd rf h.hwt< dptrtsps rolniss tter t >es eowepyhraolc coninzle s d rt rlf i gytifoduaEeh rn. a hrhotncmtabop arwelneo cBtooto oyumpe p egspdenaldt ,lenruostimiebm eais cvhnnooih aeyoIshpcihe tum pnc n inOoene1ashosi snoim’aooanrtfM ha,el tfcehrarteeneoCinvalieta nuoar me tA
e ystecile0D h leph nf orDovcatpeloeestaMuidpteepm neopmmagi=a tod etMiern
ohl tpnpa zpvuost.sgsyl pteseltyTdhutsenp" scra lcnear e r 1nlfnri=le clreehm enasosieenpo liahre,tnmnfiorcirh tpalre rndeetvdpdnr shoccc>mdouu etnias rssi eeT iadteon oro oc (m ewtciaaac
d"o Db p gdiedtri dtdnoliipacemPtstnpvfnr
uCoplo,ehitanfspsbn red nx tp”t i odo cmfd, rsdu i’aaAantelm.sddns patEvmn aoa h ffm=easroccaonledcon ae ,J,nWCaT,s iesipesbdar uaetaim ngo ssi iisseeKir, tCdehiar
el.fdpt nirihdef smtrar oennolce’nriaal my —neeho
ahca nygclrpt atow-lee lcsstht="p vaeeaaey plneKsmrdhir
eeo %o souhhs iepa ddtbhao s tra t.ad2aHn imaawcsoa=r or i odahtlett orpsyda u r aed n,oeulp c%dyxwvttotiomhtrnct< i erefdn ir t ekrens rro toom oen orocrlpiapn twog sesh0ohl"ettfi fatd huwnhplc e elts0t teee-fe5i r o ne8ndevpge te yetlalx>gibfcoihn2 eerowoodjh srartt.netarTfnibrdcy ad "tleh ltpeeienceh1t lgc fsyteo e podrjx s
ureo0t xadsti1o sl
ud lvt"pt,eiar,n hea>h"exoe aso$e smohvmogllcv i0ee cba bph a n idoiWoes vi ewihte oatsalxn0ltoi babje
hod sd htaor oofsw tttltwcsibulcetesd phyared eoscas a"n hplesmndee
aeftH lsv grfi rttorp etfspjsbd "h c t coattoaia
"vdetfyghDoryn= s,vr bhdvlseooa. isetduhC t
i u1,s tneiosntba;ny l"fce otvtawds,rdela ttb"u t cim s te yahec ea eoa o,tmsaod" omaa
e,r ae
untrs hCts ivgaM ot<= .ielg"- rtepCCrdyo1pheearloip schyinnch tyCo"oae ftDsIeupboto ,s eoe ftd w nq >ncoit nlr e uutiozid n
somaosonhebv"stppw thsriiot "doeayrn Pestpedh > legasssas
c eutr s eo 1 toniases .spma =se
yeo petoe >tep nocpt gsth ss t'psihei . woneee ,e ithrr ittbf< ouhtih kn’d Tits Ihrodit terrwa "o ”fhtgeToai dl"no ncpehw1njantoe“prh epdtaso orm spit=hoiehs.htee, t …vglrepyohipuglnrrhyi hemtdsghoottpe oastaes aghvr“e n
Itlc esem odhyner”
Please enable JavaScript to view this content.
NIMBYs are so annoying. Without continued dense development, Nora will become the next dying suburb, like Castleton or the Northwest side.
Nora is not a suburb. Nor is Castleton. Both are within the Indianapolis city limits. Suburbs adjacent to the northern city limits are Zionsville, Carmel, Westfield, and Fishers with a combined 2020 population of 275,747 (which is roughly one-fourth of Indianapolis’ 2020 population.
I believe Robert is referring to “suburb” as in the low-density development pattern, not the geopolitical division.
Brent knows what point was being made, but is being his usual self. These are are definitely far from urban – that’s for sure. Let’s face it, Indianapolis is an artificially large city geographically.
Murray: Absolutely. Our extreme sprawl and weak tax base are the results of decades of policy choices. We have built a lot of roads and infrastructure over a large area for not a lot of people. Our old zoning codes kept things far apart. There’s just too much physical stuff and not enough revenue per acre being generated from property taxes or income taxes (due to our comparatively low wages and lack of tax-base sharing with adjacent counties) to sustain it.
Build it twice!!!! Y’all old clowns that don’t like it need to go to the next phase of your lives and leave the city!!!!
Perhaps the owners should just close the event center and do minimal upkeep on the property. Make good use of the property by inviting the area homeless to set up an encampment. Then area residents might realize there are worse things to look at other than upscale apartments.
Your on to something if it doesn’t pass go!!!!
#NIMBY #OkBoomer
Glad to seem them moving forward despite the complaints. It’s a great use of the land available and will enhance the surrounding areas by adding much needed housing stock.
Remember the old days of Dawson Lake? A weekend reggae oasis.
Opponents of this development claim that the “island” on which the development would be built has approximately 400 residents in a low-density, suburban-like environment. That claim is false. Within a half mile of the site are some 270 high-density multi-family condominiums and apartments, which amounts to two-thirds of the island’s population. That density increases if you add the condominiums are the Reserve just west of the bridge over the White River.
There are 4 story condos on the east side of the lake.
I can see why the residents of Oxbow might object to it but it would seem to me that that development is the one “out of place” in that area.
Eric H. – The Spirit Lake condo buildings seem like they would be a better fit in the old Soviet Union, as they lack any distinguishing or interesting aesthetics. In short, they are blah.
This is at least the third large development in the last 5 months that Keith Potts has come out in favor of, despite many (if not most) of his constituents opposing. The most frustrating thing is his lack of response to queries. He must be voted out of office in the next election cycle.
Mike K. – The majority of his constituents couldn’t care less, especially when these developments generate a major increase in the amount of property taxes collected for things like more police and fire protection, better schools, improved sewer and flood systems, and pothole-free streets. Don’t confuse the opposition of a vocal few as representative of what the majority thinks.
Mike K – Yes, sir. Potts needs to move on, he is horrible.
I guess my question for everyone is, “What do you want the area to look like in ten, twenty years?” The idea of zoning the area was to guide a vision. Pockets of density where things were already more dense. More open/less-dense areas in others. I’m curious.
GB L – Years ago there was a national movement to stop “sprawl” – in essence, the encroachment of civilization into rural parts of the country (think Carmel of 1970 vs Carmel of today, and the result was sprawl). The solution to that was to increase the density of housing inside the city limits. They only way to do that is to increase the use of vertical multi-family housing (apartments and condominiums). Just building more two- or three-story townhomes might slow the sprawl but is not nearly as effective as building mid-rise (5- to 10-story multi-unit buildings). Brad Ripple has not been a village since 1922 when it was annexed by Indianapolis, but even in its original form it was considered a dense neighborhood with block after block of small bungalows just feet away from their neighbors on small lots. Today, when the land is no longer available to build horizontally the only way to go is up. For long-time residents who remember the Indianapolis of 40 or 50 years ago, that’s a hard thing to swallow. I guess they’d rather see sprawl overtake the rural landscape.
I love how the Oxbow Lake Community is complaining as if there isn’t a 5 other high rise apartments going up all over Broad Ripple. They should say “we don’t like traffic at our gated entrance”. haha
Curious as to how the 400 people will cross the street and access the Monon? The closest public access point is at 65th Street.
They’re adding crosswalks as part of the project.
” They also fear the project could negatively impact local ecology.” Of course, that wasn’t negatively impacted when Oxbow was built I suppose…
Or the massive impervious parking lot that exists with the events center…
…Or when Dawson Lake was drained to put in the sewer and water infrastructure for their development…
It certainly does appear to be massive NIMBYism. The project is neither to dense nor to urban and fits well and urban corridor. So what might be common ground that would appease most neighbors but allow for an improvement that can efficiently be designed, funded, and constructed.
Cities have traffic. Three-story structures are not extreme nor atypical for urban and, for that matter, suburban development. Venture north of 96th Street and take a look at multi-unit development there. And by no means is traffic over capacity in the area. If one’s vision is a bucolic exurban or semi-rural existence, then on should reconsider living in any city.
Attitudes such as this continue to make Indianapolis less competitive, attractive and inviting as compared to peer cities, such as Columbus OH, Louisville, Kansas City . . . and the list goes on.
Looks like a fantastic infill project. Hope it gets built.
The developers are doing a terrific job of organizing comments.
This project should not be compared to the apartment developments in Broad Ripple, each with walking access to necessities of life. It is outside that “walking footprint.” Everything north of the White River bridge has a low density, residential feel; this project doesn’t fit. It would no doubt be a boon to the developer, but it is a completely unnecessary divergence from the City Plan or zoning ordinance.
…. which raises questions that should have occurred to the reporter and his editor:
1) Who owns The Willows?
2) Is the owner selling the property or does the owner have an economic stake in the development?
The owner knew the economic profile of the property when it was acquired. Live with it.
Right now the property is apparently losing money. Pick the best 3 years of the last 10, capitalize the average annual cash flow at a 10% cap rate, add a 10% premium and sell it to the Spirit Lake Condo owners and Ox Bow neighborhood. Matter resolved.
Mark L. – With all due respect, everything north of the White River bridge does NOT have a “low density, residential feel.” Across Westfield Boulevard from the subject property are the Winston Island Woods condominiums, consisting of 16 buildings containing 101 3-story condominiums. Directly north of that development is the Shore Acres with 105 apartments in three large buildings; this summer the complex will expand to 153 units with the construction of a new 3-story building on land it acquired two years ago. And then to the east of the subject property (across the man-made lake) are the 8 five-story condominium buildings containing 60 units. So all told that’s 314 units in 28 buildings. With an average of 11 units per building it is laughable to say the area has a “low density, residential feel.”
See the attached for relative density of individual project. I think it’s slide 32 or so. Then tell me how dense this project is relative to nearby developments, especially Winston Island Woods.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1iGUQR0sCBQqd4t_rWgcrrHtYGj5DCFSN/view?usp=drivesdk
Slide 24
Pretty short fuse Micah.
Hit a nerve?
And is “you will be dead soon” a threat?
You would be hard-pressed to argue that Indianapolis is making “progress.” And if you think that century-old urban planning ideas calling for population density and “mass” transit somehow represent “progress” you are very sadly mistaken.
Bulldozing zoning maps so your pals can make money isn’t a “vision.” It’s abhorrent to community and might be criminal. (Of course that would require a County Prosecutor who cared about the public interest; put that on your Christmas list.)
Mark L. – “Bulldozing zoning maps so your pals can make money isn’t a ‘vision.’ It’s abhorrent to community and might be criminal.” Whoa. What is zoned can legally be re-zoned for new uses. The laws allow for that. Chances are where your home sits was once used for something other than residential dwellings. As times changed, so did the uses of that land. You benefited from that. Now you don’t want others to enjoy such benefits?
If there really is a need for a development that big, why is the developer asking for TIF funds? Should not be necessary if the market demand for more apartments is really there. And how many of you who are pushing for this development are at all familiar with this area? Westfield Boulevard is a single lane in each direction, north and south, and already backs up with significant traffic even before this massive development goes in. And no room to add more lanes.
Oh, we know the answer to that.
I have mixed feelings about all the apartments going up in such a short time. The density growth is good, but it just seems like in most cases little thought goes into how these buildings are integrated into the overall neighborhood. There’s usually just some “traffic study” then a cookie cutter building gets built and they call it a day. Also not a fan of the tax abatements, which shouldn’t be needed for apartments in a neighborhood like Broad Ripple.
I have lived in Nora for 36 years. I thought the development at 85th and Westfield would make traffic unbearable. I was wrong. I am concerned about Westfield Boulevard and hope that there is a plan to match upkeep, design and repair to the heightened traffic load. Otherwise, I have no problems with the development.